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	<title>Comments for Peter Cameron&#039;s Blog</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>always busy counting, doubting every figured guess . . .</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 18:15:17 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Creativity by Jon Awbrey</title>
		<link>http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/creativity/#comment-11633</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jon Awbrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 18:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/?p=3412#comment-11633</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Shades of Mr. Tompkins ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa14nk3woww]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shades of Mr. Tompkins &#8230;</p>
<p><span class='embed-youtube' style='text-align:center; display: block;'><iframe class='youtube-player' type='text/html' width='640' height='390' src='http://www.youtube.com/embed/Xa14nk3woww?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;fs=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;wmode=transparent' frameborder='0'></iframe></span></p>
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		<title>Comment on The electron is round by Peter Cameron</title>
		<link>http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/2011/05/27/the-electron-is-round/#comment-11623</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Cameron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jun 2013 17:33:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/?p=1344#comment-11623</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for your response. As is probably clear, I am not a physicist, but this makes me feel I am on the edge of understanding some of these mysteries. At the time I wrote this, I was meeting with statisticians working in experimental design; received wisdom tends to be that huge designs with nice properties are not of any practial interest, and I was glad to be able to wave the paper in my face and show it is not so.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your response. As is probably clear, I am not a physicist, but this makes me feel I am on the edge of understanding some of these mysteries. At the time I wrote this, I was meeting with statisticians working in experimental design; received wisdom tends to be that huge designs with nice properties are not of any practial interest, and I was glad to be able to wave the paper in my face and show it is not so.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The electron is round by Jony Hudson</title>
		<link>http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/2011/05/27/the-electron-is-round/#comment-11620</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jony Hudson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jun 2013 14:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/?p=1344#comment-11620</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A bit late to the party here, but I came across your post while sorting through papers (for REF :-(). I&#039;m one of the authors of the paper you talk about above. Thanks for writing the nice post :-)

Interesting questions at the end, which I can partially answer:

Quadrupole and higher moments: are not possible because of symmetry, specifically rotational symmetry and the fact that the electron has spin 1/2. So the dipole moment does fully characterise the &quot;shape&quot;. The result drops out of considering the impact of the rotational symmetry SO(3) on quantum states - one finds a kind of &quot;triangle rule&quot; that constrains the angular momentum of the states and the operator representing the physical quantity of interest. As the electron has spin 1/2 in its initial and final states, only operators with angular momenta 0 or 1 (i.e. scalar and dipole symmetric properties) have non-zero expectations. Hope that makes some sense! Spin-1/2 particles are indeed strange things.

Magnetic dipole moment: yes, in that sense, and the sense of it having spin, it&#039;s definitely not spherically symmetric. But in terms of its charge distribution it is. Depends on what you mean by &quot;shape&quot; really (see below).

Relativistic transformation: interesting question, and not one I&#039;ve thought about. One point that might be relevant is that the electric dipole moment is time-reversal-symmetry asymmetric, whereas the magnetic-dipole moment is T-symmetric. I don&#039;t think a Lorenz boost can change one to the other, so it must work out some way. But I&#039;m also too lazy to work it out!

Finally, shape: yes, that polarised opinion! A lot of people thought it was just plain wrong, or at least dumbing-down. I don&#039;t agree - perhaps obviously, as it was my idea to describe it that way. Being a resolutely experimental type of chap I would argue for a pragmatic description of shape along the lines of &quot;what an electromagnetic probe feels&quot;. This is essentially the definition people use every day when they pick things up. I prefer not to imagine up some mental construction of how the electron &quot;works&quot; internally, and prefer an operational definition like the above. More importantly though, it does a better job of communicating what we do to non-experts than dipole-moment - and I think those grounds alone justify it :-)

Jony]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A bit late to the party here, but I came across your post while sorting through papers (for REF <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' /> ). I&#8217;m one of the authors of the paper you talk about above. Thanks for writing the nice post <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Interesting questions at the end, which I can partially answer:</p>
<p>Quadrupole and higher moments: are not possible because of symmetry, specifically rotational symmetry and the fact that the electron has spin 1/2. So the dipole moment does fully characterise the &#8220;shape&#8221;. The result drops out of considering the impact of the rotational symmetry SO(3) on quantum states &#8211; one finds a kind of &#8220;triangle rule&#8221; that constrains the angular momentum of the states and the operator representing the physical quantity of interest. As the electron has spin 1/2 in its initial and final states, only operators with angular momenta 0 or 1 (i.e. scalar and dipole symmetric properties) have non-zero expectations. Hope that makes some sense! Spin-1/2 particles are indeed strange things.</p>
<p>Magnetic dipole moment: yes, in that sense, and the sense of it having spin, it&#8217;s definitely not spherically symmetric. But in terms of its charge distribution it is. Depends on what you mean by &#8220;shape&#8221; really (see below).</p>
<p>Relativistic transformation: interesting question, and not one I&#8217;ve thought about. One point that might be relevant is that the electric dipole moment is time-reversal-symmetry asymmetric, whereas the magnetic-dipole moment is T-symmetric. I don&#8217;t think a Lorenz boost can change one to the other, so it must work out some way. But I&#8217;m also too lazy to work it out!</p>
<p>Finally, shape: yes, that polarised opinion! A lot of people thought it was just plain wrong, or at least dumbing-down. I don&#8217;t agree &#8211; perhaps obviously, as it was my idea to describe it that way. Being a resolutely experimental type of chap I would argue for a pragmatic description of shape along the lines of &#8220;what an electromagnetic probe feels&#8221;. This is essentially the definition people use every day when they pick things up. I prefer not to imagine up some mental construction of how the electron &#8220;works&#8221; internally, and prefer an operational definition like the above. More importantly though, it does a better job of communicating what we do to non-experts than dipole-moment &#8211; and I think those grounds alone justify it <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Jony</p>
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		<title>Comment on Araucaria by Peter Cameron</title>
		<link>http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/2013/01/12/araucaria/#comment-11588</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Cameron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jun 2013 07:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/?p=2931#comment-11588</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A nice Araucaria clue (worth reporting here) from last Saturday&#039;s Guardian:

Said to have acquired chopper when on the rocks (Guardian series) (3,3,5,4)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A nice Araucaria clue (worth reporting here) from last Saturday&#8217;s Guardian:</p>
<p>Said to have acquired chopper when on the rocks (Guardian series) (3,3,5,4)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Algebra in Novi Sad by Peter Cameron</title>
		<link>http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/2013/06/09/algebra-in-novi-sad/#comment-11541</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Cameron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jun 2013 13:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/?p=3362#comment-11541</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hope you liked the pictures - that was the best I could do with all the rain...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hope you liked the pictures &#8211; that was the best I could do with all the rain&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Algebra in Novi Sad by Igor Dolinka</title>
		<link>http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/2013/06/09/algebra-in-novi-sad/#comment-11539</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Igor Dolinka]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jun 2013 11:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/?p=3362#comment-11539</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Peter, thank YOU for a most beautiful review of our NSAC 2013 conference...!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Peter, thank YOU for a most beautiful review of our NSAC 2013 conference&#8230;!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Formal Logic by davidjan43@aol.com</title>
		<link>http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/2011/05/12/formal-logic/#comment-11531</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[davidjan43@aol.com]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jun 2013 19:38:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/?p=1311#comment-11531</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here is my Open Access pdf LOGIC GALLERY. It has a page for each of virtually every logician since Aristole. I think most of you will like it.........    http://humbox.ac.uk/3682/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is my Open Access pdf LOGIC GALLERY. It has a page for each of virtually every logician since Aristole. I think most of you will like it&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;    <a href="http://humbox.ac.uk/3682/" rel="nofollow">http://humbox.ac.uk/3682/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on A history of Merton College by Peter Cameron</title>
		<link>http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/2013/05/23/a-history-of-merton-college/#comment-11511</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Cameron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jun 2013 20:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/?p=3284#comment-11511</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The sundial in the Fellows&#039; Quad is relatively recent. Geoffrey Bath, a contemporary of mine as a Junior Research Fellow at Merton (who had the distinction of living in Bath Place for a time) re-computed the remarkable sundial in Front Quad when the fabric of the chapel was being restored. The Fellows were so pleased with his work that they let him design a sundial of his own for Fellows Quad, where it is opposite the clock. (The sundial in Front Quad only works in the early morning, and the one in Fellows Quad only in the afternoon.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The sundial in the Fellows&#8217; Quad is relatively recent. Geoffrey Bath, a contemporary of mine as a Junior Research Fellow at Merton (who had the distinction of living in Bath Place for a time) re-computed the remarkable sundial in Front Quad when the fabric of the chapel was being restored. The Fellows were so pleased with his work that they let him design a sundial of his own for Fellows Quad, where it is opposite the clock. (The sundial in Front Quad only works in the early morning, and the one in Fellows Quad only in the afternoon.)</p>
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		<title>Comment on KPMG by Peter Cameron</title>
		<link>http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/2013/05/31/kpmg/#comment-11485</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Cameron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Jun 2013 05:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/?p=3351#comment-11485</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[An interesting take on the very last point, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.londonreconnections.com/2013/thameslink-and-the-national-audit-office-part-1/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;from the London Reconnections blog&lt;/a&gt;. They are discussing a &quot;half-time report&quot; by the National Audit Office on the Thameslink project. At one point the author, Pedantic of Purley, says:

&quot;One peculiarity about the way the [benefit/cost ratio] is calculated is that it actually takes into account the loss of revenue to the treasury as a result of the reduction of receipts of fuel tax due to people changing mode of travel from car to train. This does seem quite extraordinary. Either fuel tax is a specific tax intended to discourage use of cars (or more accurately oil to power vehicles) or it is a general tax with the sole intention of raising revenue for the chancellor. If it is the former then it is quite absurd that rail projects that reduce oil use are penalised for achieving the objective laid down. If it is the latter then it is madness that the cost benefit analysis of a project depends on the arbitrary way that the chancellor chooses to apportion his revenue streams and not on the project itself. It is the modern equivalent of the 1960′s argument that smoking was a good thing because it provided tax revenue for the government.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting take on the very last point, <a href="http://www.londonreconnections.com/2013/thameslink-and-the-national-audit-office-part-1/" rel="nofollow">from the London Reconnections blog</a>. They are discussing a &#8220;half-time report&#8221; by the National Audit Office on the Thameslink project. At one point the author, Pedantic of Purley, says:</p>
<p>&#8220;One peculiarity about the way the [benefit/cost ratio] is calculated is that it actually takes into account the loss of revenue to the treasury as a result of the reduction of receipts of fuel tax due to people changing mode of travel from car to train. This does seem quite extraordinary. Either fuel tax is a specific tax intended to discourage use of cars (or more accurately oil to power vehicles) or it is a general tax with the sole intention of raising revenue for the chancellor. If it is the former then it is quite absurd that rail projects that reduce oil use are penalised for achieving the objective laid down. If it is the latter then it is madness that the cost benefit analysis of a project depends on the arbitrary way that the chancellor chooses to apportion his revenue streams and not on the project itself. It is the modern equivalent of the 1960′s argument that smoking was a good thing because it provided tax revenue for the government.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Back issues, 2 by Jon Awbrey</title>
		<link>http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/2013/05/30/back-issues-2/#comment-11460</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jon Awbrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Jun 2013 00:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cameroncounts.wordpress.com/?p=3347#comment-11460</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The following tag would normally force invisible borders on a table:

&lt;code&gt;&lt;table border=&quot;0&quot; style=&quot;border-width:0&quot;&gt;&lt;/code&gt;

But WordPress still leaves a light border line on top of each cell, so you have to add the following parameter to each table datum:

&lt;code&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;border-top:1px solid white&quot;&gt;&lt;/code&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The following tag would normally force invisible borders on a table:</p>
<p><code>&lt;table border="0" style="border-width:0"&gt;</code></p>
<p>But WordPress still leaves a light border line on top of each cell, so you have to add the following parameter to each table datum:</p>
<p><code>&lt;td style="border-top:1px solid white"&gt;</code></p>
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